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Post by muscles on May 30, 2009 11:51:51 GMT
I do believe we had this same scenario about 18 months ago, when I shoved because I knew the BB was gone. Someone else at the table delayed, and BB returns and plays his handThis happens regularly but the opposite is also the case, some players rush the deal in order to 'catch' an opponent out who may have nipped out for a quick smoke I presume you are being sarcastic
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Post by bobflatley on May 30, 2009 12:27:40 GMT
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Post by richiet on May 30, 2009 12:52:38 GMT
True its a friendly game, but we have to stick by the rules, otherwise it will just get out of hand. If a player is not in his/her seat when the last card is dealt to them their hand is dead. This is nothing new to any of the regulars playing in Hanleys. The dealer should just muck the hand and this cant happen. The bb should never have even got to see the cards.
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Post by richiet on May 30, 2009 12:56:37 GMT
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Post by muscles on May 30, 2009 13:09:04 GMT
True its a friendly game, but we have to stick by the rules, otherwise it will just get out of hand. If a player is not in his/her seat when the last card is dealt to them their hand is dead. This is nothing new to any of the regulars playing in Hanleys. The dealer should just muck the hand and this cant happen. The bb should never have even got to see the cards.[/b] I agree Ritchie but how often do you see a player come back, having missed his play and pull his cards out of muck to look at them. I've lost count of the amount of times i have pulled players on this but then i'm seen as a spoilsport, taking the fun out of the game etc...... Re dealers, well it's a self deal game, and generally whoever is dealing usually doesn't always take it on themselves to take in dead cards or sort pots etc. Some other palyer will often do it and again this all seems to be accepted. I played for the first time the other night and couldnt believe when one particular player, who is a well establsihed player, kept looking at the next card when the play had finished in a hand. Again, no one seemed to abt an eyelid at this. There was one ridiculous incident wheh there was three 5's on the board and one player made a bet. While another was player was thinking about a call, another player not in the hand pulled his cards from the muck and showed to player beside him. it was obvious as hell he had mucked a 5 and indeed showed it after the hand. No one seemed to care and this is my problem. Do i implement the rules as they are, or make decisions that i consider fair in the context of this particular tournament with the real possibility that numbers will drop again?? I think that there are only about 5/6 players that really understand and play the game in the spirit it was intended, about 10/12 others who are not 100% sure of correct etiquette and rules but are not in any way trying to get an edge if they make errors, 10/12 who don't give a sh1t either way. Just my tuppence worth.
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Post by muscles on May 30, 2009 13:15:12 GMT
I don't think he was thinking about the ethics of it at all. He was just repalying in his mind all the times he had kk cracked before. Ya see now what happens Bob when you play Kk pre flop?? Opens up a right can of worms.
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Post by hbk on May 30, 2009 17:22:51 GMT
I agree Ritchie but how often do you see a player come back, having missed his play and pull his cards out of muck to look at them. I've lost count of the amount of times i have pulled players on this but then i'm seen as a spoilsport, taking the fun out of the game etc...... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- f### them muscles, thats what your there for, people always question a referees/td decision if they have been told their in the wrong, but they just have to accept it.it should be up to the dealer to muck the cards, or ask someone to do it, if players aren't in their seat. i always have the manners not to question your decisions, but may discuss it here later, its like when you announce the blinds are up, how many people say 'oh, i had mine out', these discussions are why our game is far superior to other games, any other local tourney i play, the players seem to do what they want, then when they go up playing bigger tournaments they don't know the rules. which is exactly what happened in the tf at the bruce poker event, one guy couldn't understand why he couldn't look at his cards and made a big deal about it, i don't think anyones bladder is that bad, that they can't hang on a few extra minutes until the blinds pass them by. if you have to tell the same people time and time again about something then there ruining the game for you, and for others and especially when they already know the rules but still ask the td, putting everyone involved in an awkward situation, then the td makes the wrong ruling and what can ya do. theres no reason why you can't bring a list of rules and stick it on the wall every week, then no one can have an excuse for not knowing. i think a penalty should be introduced where if a person breaks the rules they have to stand on a chair and sing the theme tune to different strokes (remember the show about the white american guy with the 2 pet monkies) while drinking a cup pepper. or at least some other penalty. www.youtube.com/watch?v=zedtaqvRvuc
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Post by muscles on May 30, 2009 18:22:37 GMT
I agree Ritchie but how often do you see a player come back, having missed his play and pull his cards out of muck to look at them. I've lost count of the amount of times i have pulled players on this but then i'm seen as a spoilsport, taking the fun out of the game etc...... Agreed. Thats one of the points i made earlier. But dealers don't always do it and other players will often pick them up and look at them Don't understand this point. Blinds go up next hand. New hand starts with first shuffle. I've played in a few pub games in the past and i agree, this one and Kiltimagh are among the best and maybe this is a timely discussion as things are getting very loose. Could never figure this out either. Exactly. Some players who should know better try to stretch things to the limit in this regard I have a copy with me every week and i posted earlier that i gave out loads of copies but no one bothered to take one home and look at them, with one or two exceptions. Nobody has an excuse for looking at other cards etc etc anyway and i fail to see how a set of rules on the wall will make them change their ways. By the way, there are 4/5 pages in my rulebook and 19 in Roberts Rules so not sure if eamon wnats his walls covered in that stuff. If everyone agrees, i will make an announcement before next week's game that a copy of the rules are available for anyone that wants and i'll also run through the basic rules (that 90% are aware of anyway) and will enforce them from the off. If some players aren't happy, then tough. Personally speaking, i have been getting totally frustrated with the way things have been going in this regard. I would prefer to run a good tournament with 15 sound players than a free for all with 30. On a personal note, i apologise to you Joe for this particular ruling. I made a quick decision and thought it was accepted. My fault. In fairness you have always accepted any decisions/rulings without argument. If any players have any other problems they might as well get them off their chest now or something similar wil come up again down the line. Right that's my spake in and i'm off for a pint.
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Post by theblackthing on May 30, 2009 19:08:08 GMT
Muscles, if you email me the rules I will find some way of having them permanently in the bar, maybe I’ll bind them and hang them up somewhere every Thursday night.
I think it is important that we run the tournament in a professional manner, so maybe the next time somebody goes rabbit hunting etc we point it out the player in a nice way. We don’t have to be d!cks about it, just explain that it would not be accepted behaviour in bigger tourneys so it will not be accepted here.
I think it is in the interest of all the players and the tournament itself that the rules be enforced, but at the same time lets not get too technical about it. For example, a player is returning and is genuinely rushing to get to his seat before his second card is dealt, and he isn’t actually seated when it is dealt. Please don’t be insisting that his hand is mucked because that would be going totally overboard with it.
I think it’s important that we keep within the good spirit of the game, and if we as players act more responsibly and explain to any newcomers the general guidelines of the game then at least it also remains a fun night out with the boys.
Look at our cash game for example, it’s not regulated as such and we have no TD, but we all know not to put a foot out of line in it because we know that we would lose the respect of our fellow players if we tried anything underhanded.
Common sense should be the key.
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Post by richiet on May 31, 2009 11:19:25 GMT
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Post by hbk on May 31, 2009 13:19:55 GMT
ya i agree richiet, i also think the current champ should wear a crown and cloak every week so everyone knows. "2 yellows = red and your off, suspeded for 2 weeks aswell" i'm not sure what 'suspeded' is but i'd say its a great idea!! also, i think we should have linesmen...maybe whoever is working in the bar or perhaps a local like shady goggins, who could give you a single if they see something off play. i remember one week when muscles wasn't looking, derek stevens threw a dart at martin mulaghy, of course he missed him but martin dived and was down for a couple of minutes, both players should have disaplined. anyone else any ideas?
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Post by fourofakind on May 31, 2009 14:30:48 GMT
Interesting post this. If I may I'd like to give my view from a TD and players point of view.
This same scenario comes up alot of places and used to frequent alot at my games in the first year or two. And like muscles said, it frustrated me big time when the game started to slide into the "friendly home game between locals" as apposed to a "friendly poker tournament with a standard set of rules".
I also have to agree with Muscles that alot of stick is thrown the TD's direction especially where rulings come into question. But what can be done? As Joe said, rules are there to make the game both friendly and competitive. I know some of my regular players think that I'm picking on them when I make a ruling on an incident, but they also know that there's a full printed copy of the rules available for each and every player if they wanted them. But as was stated earlier.....most players don't give a hoot about rules until their involved themselves.
As everyone know's rules change from place to place. The rule I have in place regarding what this topic is about, is that if a player is'nt at their seat when their second card is dealt to them, then their hand is 100% dead. I've also seen places where if your not at your seat when your first card is dealt then its dead. This imo is a much better rule...but since I started with the second card rule...I'll stick with it...otherwise its another fight night round 5 trying to implement and explain the new rule.
Eamonn made a good suggestion about getting a copy of the rules and making them available every night there's a game. I have a copy with me in my little bitc h bag each night I run a game....just so that I'm covered. That way if someone new comes to the game and has a "thats not the way we play up in such a place" question..then he can be kinda shown the house rules.
Yer very lucky to all be able to talk about things like this here...makes for a great way to sort issues etc out.
As always, everyone's not going to be 100% in agreeance regarding certain poker rules.
I won't be able to string bet at the game tomorrow so i take it ;D ;D ;D ;D
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fish
New Member
Posts: 30
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Post by fish on Jun 1, 2009 15:00:36 GMT
It sound to me like the game has gone down a lot in the past few months. Rabbit hunting, Angle shooting...I hope this doesnt continue, im playing a very high standard of poker at the moment and I dont want to come home to a bad game!!! Although I do like the idea of enda singing different strokes theme tune ;D ;D ;D What you talkin bout Willis ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by bobflatley on Jun 1, 2009 22:53:07 GMT
I think thae fact that this has caused such a stir shows that there isn't much wrong with the game. If this sort of thing were commonplace we'd be on the forum kicking up stink week in week out. I think the notion of suspending a player would do more harm than good to the game but perhaps a point docking system for repeat offenders might be an idea. I don't expect it would be used very often as I don't believe that very many punishable incidents occur. I know that this was a rare slip in game etiquette by myself. I just hope that this doesn't lead to a few farcial weeks of of every perceived misdemeanor being called to a ruling. If a player is way out of line then fair enough. The biggest irony of this is that it's only about the third time in months that KK held up for me and I can't take any enjoyment from it
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Post by theblackthing on Jun 12, 2009 13:34:56 GMT
Bob, I'm hearing rumours that you did the same thing again last night! Surely this can't be true!
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